I have forgiven that pastor in my heart and now have sympathy for the hurts that helped form his character. As for my part, I have dropped it. ignore the fact that he was, in fact, treating his depression. Mark my words, it will happen. But that runs right up against CELEBRITY Syndrome and TOUCH NOT MINE ANOINTED!, Barbara Roberts wrote: Yes,?, no?, I dont know ? Great minds think alike! The question is whether anyone close to him (a) loves him enough to do the confrontation and (b) understands enough to do it well. Could this be Justification by If Everybodys Doing It? UPDATE: Please note, I have removed and exchanged the original statement which was posted below by request of the author. Velour wrote: Perhaps you missed Barbaras comment on Friday at 5:40 p.m. to H.U.G. 2. a check forger, or This guy has way more going on than alcoholism. He who is without sin cast the first stone. Reports I have read from many who attended St. Peter indicated that it was run like a cult. Talk-and-die Syndrome; taken to the hospital where they spent most of the time and effort repairing/removing his spleen; they didnt notice the slow brain-bleed/brain swelling; went critical overnight and he died the next morning. Why not? His scandals go back approximately two decades. I do know that most Christian people do believe that Christ died for them out of love for them, not to satisfy a wrathful entity who despises them. Has that been reported on or discussed? He has been through enough pain without your unfounded accusations and threats even that if his son hurts someone it will be on his head . I already am apostate in the SBC because I believe God gifts men and women in the sharing of Gods word. Warning: Unless RC Sproul Jr gets some real help, the next incident could be tragic. The domination by one person makes it difficult to have a healthy conversation. This is not cruel. I had forgotten that. And stealing. From this one statement (R C Sproul Junior needs to be put out of the church and that needs to be very publicly done because he has been so significant at Ligonier. I dont recall anyone saying addictions alone warranted anyone being kicked out. I noticed the same kinds of barbs being dished out over there, so its not just this blog, this issue, this thread, and me in particular. However reading your narrative (and others) has given me much to think about. That is an exaggeration and overstatement. He needs to be in an in-patient treatment program. Talk about a great way of destroying the faith of children! I had to figure it out myself later in life. Ill admit to being too lazy to scroll back up the page to read Barbs original comments, but I dont recall her asking for anyone to be publicly humiliated (?) Thanks for the help on fathers day it was very good to tell that story. I really doubt most alcoholics CAN go to inpatient treatment for 30 let alone 90 days. Seeing a thread go down this road again makes me very sad. Not many would criticize the moderate consumption. I dont think that an active substance abuser has a good idea of what they want many times, besides the next hit of [substance of choice]. You have taken this quote out of context . I love them dearly & only wish they could have the love & grace that you & your church offered to her. Divorce would go beyond that to Its the end of the road.. Christiane, you ask whether there is authoritative oversight in the Presbyterian Church. I get the same apples and oranges feeling someone else mentioned. I wasnt raised with the concept that your church keeps tabs on what youre up to. Horrific..emotionally, physically , life changing in every way. V- ^ ,v . 5000 COUNTY ROAD 46A Sanford, FL ROBERT SPROUL OBITUARY Sproul, Robert R.C. And as far as dark chocolate goes, I didnt have any with my wine (oops, gave it away), but I did have 1/4 of my Trader Joes dark chocolate and almond bar that I am savoring. He might have even qualified to have his criminal record expunged. Sadly the SBC expects everyone to be in lock step and they do everything they can to create fear in leaders lives that they will lose their paying positions. So I was only saying what the Bible says. Thanks for giving us that information. Im not entirely sure why its considered relevant by Velour in talking to Barbara about RC Jr., though. Since yall are medical people, is alcoholism a disease? It just sounds creepy to me. I am a hardliner. So a married guy being an alcoholic is a justification for using a cheating site? I dont see the comparison as connecting to RC Sproul Jr., except for the coincidence that they are both alcoholics. I happen to see the public health aspects of alcoholism and drug addiction differently than you and Barbara (and Julie Anne) see them. I am just not going to be holding my breath, thats all. Way too many comments here have nothing at all to do with the subject, which is RC Sproul Jr, a wolf in sheeps clothing who has destroyed the lives and faiths of dozens of people and families. I have no doubt that it wasnt the first time by any means that R.C. (And the same goes for HUG where he contemptuously described me as righteous.). Trying to save children from the hell of an actively alcoholic parent is a good thing. When I was a month away from turning 13, I was invited by a friend to go to Myrtle Beach with her and her parents. You are insisting on everyone saying treatment for alcoholics is the way to go (and I agree). Its good that you told your parents about it, and its good they protected you from further harm. To an Alky, the Constitutional Right to My Next Drink cannot be infringed in any way. It sounds to me like he has a different definition for in moderation. (California) Preach it sister! Please stop advocating for his children? Maybe Barbara would support all that stuff is it fair to base your arguments on silence? 30-90 day inpatient treatment is cost prohibitive for a lot of people, even if they wanted to go. Unfortunately, drunk or sober, he espouses patriarchy, even to the point of rumored wife-spanking. Sproul was converted. RC Sproul passed on, aged 78 years, on 14th December 2017. But yesterday I had to go back and let them look at a post-op problem that has arisen, and the delightful surgeon in the office who saw me was a man. Friend your comment made me weep. where have we seen that before? IMO, any so called Christian who is not angry about this needs to take a good look at their own heart. You are correct. Then for a while I was admitting staff physician in charge of adult female admissions at a large psychiatric hospital. Just pondering here. Given that the Foursquare church doctrine differs strongly in many ways from Sprouls Reformed heritagetongues, prophecy, perseverance of the saints, etc..and that Sproul is apparently teaching in that movement without anybody apparently checking on what he believesIm not optimistic. People think they have far more impact than they do re: what they can control re: an addict, and they think they have far less control than they do re: what they themselves can do to reduce the impact of the addict. How much can I eat and not gain weight? Of course he needs treatment, but there are far more people harmed by his chronic abuse behavior from his position behind the pulpit as pastor. ( Im a Harvest Bible Chapel member and I keep up with all things JMAC). Should you have been kicked out of church because you struggled with depression, anxiety, or any other problem? Your ex-church family sounds like a bunch of cheerless people. There are phone books with that same information. For those who care about womens issues it was an all female surgical team. H.A., However, I dont believe their marginal successes in any merit the sort of dogmatic enthusiasm you give them. OK, thats not what I said or believe and since when is getting someone professional care for their problems dogmatic? Hi Dee and Deb, just a couple of things you might want to correct in this part of your post: >> Heart breaking tragedy is not an excuse for substance abuse. In my case alky is the term we commonly used at CR. Mr. F- if you dont agree with RC Sprouls theology that is your business and Im not interested . The body has many parts. To say that I am very very concerned for the children hes given drink to, and his own children as well, is a huge understatement. RC Sr should have called his son to repentance and to make restitution to all the families hed abused. @ okrapod: It just always seemed clear to me how Paul was instructing the Corinthian church to deal with sin that caused harm to the testimony of Christ. That intervention meeting was more than a decade ago, and I know theories can change over time.) The crack I heard was his leg bone splitting lengthwise down his leg. But some of us here also have not just experience with alkies in general. . Mainly because there seems to be little to show for all the years of effort. He was bored. : and for their family who need help dealing with an alcoholic. Search Vestal obituaries and condolences, hosted by Echovita.com. He probably was already drunk, or at least under the influence. The fact that he felt ok about this statement says a lot of about an addicts powers of denial. I am not defending excommunication in any way. Any time Ive ever gone to a church, what normally happens is I attend a Sunday School class where a teacher raises some topic (not pertaining to alcoholism), then I go and sit in the large worship area where I listen to a rock band play. Another poster posted Scripture from one of Pauls letters about not fellowshipping with people who proclaim faith in Christ Jesus, but live a life of continual unrepentant sin. Velour has been advocate for many hurting people here on this blog, offering prayer lists, I remember that you have told us this story before. Instead he said the charges against his son were fraudulent which meant he was basically accusing everyone of being liars. Sproul Jr.s abuses of power, spiritual abuse, and excommunications and shunnings of people. With the prevalence of addictions, including in women (and that includes older women), the solution in my opinion isnt to kick them out of the church but to come alongside them and get them (and their families) help. They have absolutely NO idea how phony it sounds to someone outside the Amen Chorus. You appear to have reading comprehension problems and are far more focused on insisting that you be heard (thus you keep posting the same 4 point list, over and over again) than you are willing to consider others opinions. I would take it that an alcoholic would have that same experience if they went to the same sort of churches I did. Ive read a lot of pushback to AAs all or nothing approach recently. No one has said we shouldnt try. They were medicating mental illness with alcohol. The Bible shows us how, and helps us to do that. Alcohol can kill, it can ruin marriages and finances and it's a waste of Gods finances but that is all my personal opinion. Alcoholics cannot be helped and wont be helped if they dont want it. I know the story, but need someone willing to come forward, even anonymously. And he is correct in that drunkenness is a sin but drinking wine is not forbidden. 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